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Lindsey Hall: I'm Lindsey Hall.

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon.

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to All Things Sustainable, a podcast from S&P Global. As your hosts, we'll dive in to all the sustainability topics that are reshaping the business world.

Esther Whieldon: Join us every Friday for in-depth analysis and interviews with leaders from around the globe. Together, we'll break down big sustainability headlines and cut through the jargon.

Lindsey Hall: If you tuned in to last week's episode of this podcast, you heard us talking about how companies are balancing near-term energy needs with longer term sustainability priorities. Basically, it boils down to how the companies ensure they can meet the world's growing energy demands in an affordable and reliable way while also lowering emissions and adapting to climate change.

Esther Whieldon: This was a big focus March 10 through 14 at CERAWeek. That's the Annual S&P Global conference in Houston, Texas that convenes stakeholders from across the energy ecosystem. This includes everyone from the world's largest fossil fuel companies, renewable energy, policymakers, scientists, academics, and utilities. We heard at CERAWeek how energy providers are working to strengthen infrastructure and enhance climate resilience in the face of more frequent extreme weather events.

Lindsey Hall: And I sat down on the sidelines of the conference with one company that has a unique perspective on this topic, Southern California Edison. That's an investor-owned public utility operating as a subsidiary of Edison International. And Southern California Edison is one of the largest electric utilities in the U.S. It monitors and maintains a sprawling electricity system that includes 125,000 miles of distribution and bulk transmission lines. 

Today, we're talking to Shinjini Menon, the utility's Senior Vice President of System Planning and Engineering. As we'll hear in the interview, this role means she spends a lot of time thinking about how to balance the need for reliable, affordable energy on the one hand, and on the other hand, the risks of extreme weather events like wildfires, which are becoming more frequent and more severe with climate change. 

This is especially in sharp focus in Southern California, which experienced devastating wildfires at the beginning of 2025. We'll include a link in our show notes to a recent episode we did about those California wildfires. Okay. Here's Shinjini, who starts off by describing her role at Southern California Edison and the diverse market the utility serves.

Shinjini Menon: I am responsible for our engineering team in Southern California Edison for the transmission and distribution grid. And what that entails is every aspect of engineering, starting with grid innovation as we have to redesign what the architecture of the grid is, how it's operated in the future, but also the nuts and bolts of engineering, asset management, engineering standards, designing the scope for all the work that goes to construction and maintenance and also field engineering. 

So we are over 50,000 square miles in Southern California. We serve about 5.2 million customer accounts, which means about 15 million customers altogether. It's a very diverse areas. There are urban areas, of course, but there's also the desert, rural areas, mountainous areas, and that kind of plays into how we go about our wildfire mitigation. 

For example, there are locations where it's relatively flat, relatively urban, it's easier to deploy mitigations, but there are other areas where it's quite congested and we look at, for example, what is the ingress and egress situation because that could add to the risk of wildfires. It's not just from potentially our equipment, but is it close to grasslands? Is it close to a canyon? And all of that goes into the risk modeling. 

And the other thing I'll mention about our service area is a third of our customers are what we'd call income qualified. So the equity and access of energy and security is a big part of what goes into the equation. So we have about 4,500 distribution circuits, but 1,100 of those are currently in high fire risk areas, but that seems to be expanding as we go, as we see more and more impact of climate change.

Question and Answer

Esther Whieldon: Okay. So with those factors that you've laid out, how are you balancing the need for security, reliability, affordability, and resilience to climate change?

Shinjini Menon: So first of all, there is a portfolio-wide optimization that happens. So for example, from 2017 and '18, we had to focus on wildfire mitigation. That was such an urgent need. And you mentioned like the security, reliability, affordability of energy. Well, if the impact on the community safety from a wildfire, and again, it doesn't have to be associated with electrical equipment at all. Most fires start from non-electrical equipment. 

We needed to make sure we focus on that first, prioritize that. That did mean that we would step back and say, what else can we slow down a little bit. We wouldn't stop anything, but we might need to slow down. The other thing that we try to do is if we can integrate some of the work. So if you go into a location to do some wildfire mitigation work, are there other needs in that same location that we can do at the same time so that we can still get the work done more efficiently?

Esther Whieldon: So talking about this need to slow down, but at the same time, I know from our past conversations, you've talked about, wow, we need to really move fast to address some of these urgent risks. How do you balance the need for speed with the need for going slow?

Shinjini Menon: Right. So I think it's which things do you speed up and which things do you slow down or pause for a little bit. So for wildfire mitigation, we deployed over 6,000 miles of covered conductor in five or six years, which is a tremendous amount of work. Now the way we sped that up, there are various factors in it. The one is not trying to develop the technology ourselves. So we benchmarked internationally. 

Australia has unfortunately suffered from bush fires themselves. We saw other places, also in Japan, for example, they have deployed covered conductor. So we learned from them. Our engineers talked to their counterparts and so that we can deploy much faster. The second is we organized ourselves so that there was a dedicated group focused on wildfires so that they're somewhat insulated from the rest of the work so that they could focus on this.

And a big part of it was our mindset shift because utilities often are not known for moving fast, innovation, and we also have, for good reasons, somewhat of a risk avoidance mindset. And as we were working on wildfire, we quickly changed that to how do we manage the risk. And all of those factors went into us being able to move much faster than we have done in the past and move efficiently.

Lindsey Hall: I asked Shinjini, how she's thinking about climate resilience in her role. Here she is again.

Shinjini Menon: Yes. So there are two aspects to it. We have been working on climate adaptation and resilience for several years. One aspect is more the long term, saying how do we need to get ready for where we place our equipment, what kinds of equipment we place, how we operate it for things like you know, more frequent or extended heat storms. It could be for massive amounts of precipitation and sea level rise and of course, wildfires. 

So the wildfire journey unfortunately started somewhere back in the 2017, 2018 time frame when some of the most devastating wildfires started happening in California. And then, of course, the most recent very unfortunate and devastating incidents in our service area in -- last January. So that entails coming up with what our protocols will be in mitigating risks or wildfire. And there are like three broad categories that we look at. 

One is situational awareness, how do we use hardware and models to understand what our risk is both ahead of any event or during events. The second is on our operational protocols that -- how do we manage an event or the system, whether it's like inspections or vegetation management or different kinds of switching protocols for proactive power shutoffs. 

And then the largest part of it is on grid hardening, saying how do we make our equipment and our infrastructure more resilient so that in case a wildfire happens, the impact is reduced on our system and also the other side that our equipment is not involved with starting wildfires.

Esther Whieldon: Okay. I have a lot of follow-up questions, but let's start with the technology. Can you talk to me about the direction of travel for the technology that you're using to prepare for, adapt to, build resilience to wildfires?

Shinjini Menon: Yes. So again, going back to the three categories I talked about, so for the situational awareness, a lot of the technology is a lot of sensors so that not only can you detect falls quickly, but anticipate falls before they happen so that we can take action quickly. A lot on weather stations and HD cameras. There is a lot of software technology, AI that goes in so that we can forecast weather better because that plays into how we operate, again, preparing for an event or during event if one happens. So there's technology on that side. 

There's also a lot of software technology that goes into our risk modeling. On the inspections and maintenance side, we now use drones and helicopters other than ground-based inspections that human beings are going and taking pictures of. We collect a lot of pictures and videos and we use technologies to automate some of -- like identifying what the issues are that we need to address. 

Again, it helps with not only cost efficiency, but sometimes it's better than human eyes looking at them. For vegetation management, apart from all the human activity, the manual activity that happens, we use LiDAR data to identify where there might be issues. And then on the grid hardening side, one of the flagship programs that we have had is deploying what we call covered conductor. 

Think of it as the overhead lines, they're just insulated. So that has been very helpful because you can deploy it fast, then you can buy down a lot of the risk. And then, of course, there's undergrounding. When we look at undergrounding, it's not only the traditional undergrounding, but we're exploring new ways so that it can be done much faster and cheaper. And then there are other more novel technologies. 

One is, I'll say it, but it's a mouthful, rapid earth fault limiting current. And what it really means is if there's a fault, let's say, a wire breaks for whatever reason in the wind or due to vegetation and fault on the ground, the fault current is reduced very, very fast to such small amounts that it will not start an ignition. So there are many other technologies like this that we are constantly looking into and deploying to mitigate wildfires.

Lindsey Hall: We just heard Shinjini mention LiDAR data and that's light detection and ranging, a technology used to create high-resolution models of ground elevation. As I mentioned at the start of today's episode, we had this conversation on the sidelines of the CERAWeek conference in Houston, where a range of companies from across the energy ecosystem were present, including several utilities like Southern California Edison. I asked Shinjini, how are companies approaching climate change and how does that compare to peers?

Shinjini Menon: So Southern California Edison started this journey several years back. And again, there is the climate resilience part of it, but there's also the climate mitigation. So we have put forward a pretty ambitious goal of -- for decarbonization and the electrification that we believe is necessary for affordable decarbonization. And as we have talked to our sister utilities in California or other utilities across the nation, both on the gas side and the electric side and definitely our regulators and legislators, you hear that a lot of people thinking that way and transitioning. 

I think the conversation sometimes gets very focused on climate change or climate resilience and there might be different points of view on that, but something that everyone can agree on is at the end of the day, it's about all of our communities having affordable access to energy, reliable energy, and having that energy security. And also all this work that's going on, all the changes in the technology, it is an economic boost as well. So I think different parties, different stakeholders can find that common ground and kind of move with a sense of urgency on the work we are doing.

Esther Whieldon: Okay. Talk to me a little bit about some of the hurdles that you face when you're trying to scale these solutions, either on the decarbonization side or on the adaptation and resilience side.

Shinjini Menon: There are a few for sure that we have encountered and learned from as we go along. So one I will mention -- so one of the mitigations that is one tool in our toolbox is public safety power shutoffs. So as electric utilities, our operators are hardwired to say, "Keep the lights on." And we had to train ourselves to say, "There are -- at times, the risk is so high that we need to proactively de-energize." 

Not only was it difficult for our workforce to internalize that, having that conversation with our communities. In the middle of this, we had COVID, everyone was working and studying from home, so they needed power all the time. And to help them understand that, yes, there are hardships that come with the power being off, what can we do to mitigate it? 

Either by notifying them on time or keeping them posted or also deploying some customer care methods. So we have vehicles out there so -- where customers can charge their phones or come and get a snack or maybe even some warmth during the winter months. So there are a lot of customer care programs that we have backup batteries and so on and so forth. So getting communities to understand why this is necessary, educating them, so that was one challenge that we had to learn how to overcome. 

The other piece is affordability. So all of these investments cost a lot of money. And how do you get legislators and regulators and customers on board to understand why that investment is necessary? And yes, there's a cost to action, but the cost for inaction is so much higher that it makes sense to invest that. And then the third part on the operational side, as we were moving fast, we always found, okay, this is not working very well. We don't want to compromise quality or safety as we are doing work and we were constantly checking that and adjusting as needed.

Esther Whieldon: Okay. It sounds like a hard job.

Shinjini Menon: It definitely is. But if there was any time that we needed to show up in our communities in a different way, it's now.

Esther Whieldon: As you're looking ahead, what is the path forward for the utility industry broadly and SoCal Edison specifically to continue adapting and building resilience to climate change?

Shinjini Menon: Yes. So I think one of the biggest things is using technology. And it's not just about climate change, it's also looking at the demand growth that is coming, not just from the natural demand growth. Everybody talks about data centers, but in our service area, it's residential growth, it's commercial growth, and of course, electrification. And they go hand-in-hand because the more people are using energy, the more climate change resilience becomes front and center for them. 

So benchmarking a lot, learning what others are doing because the more we can work with people, the more collectively we can move faster. And not just benchmarking within our industry, but we are looking at our suppliers, how do we make sure there's a diverse supplier base and they are resilient? Because if we don't get all the equipment on time, we can't deliver to our customers on time. So that's a big part of the equation. 

And then like I said, technology in the sense, how do we utilize the assets that we have available better? How do we harden them faster? There is so much happening. It's such an exciting time, both on the hardware and the software side is having a vision and really staying steadfast to it and looking for every opportunity to innovate and innovate fast.

Esther Whieldon: Okay. I think my last question for you is about data. We love to talk about data on this podcast. What data are you relying on to make the decisions that you're making about investments in adaptation and other aspects of climate change?

Shinjini Menon: Yes. So I mean, data -- there's all kinds of data and models that come into play. Definitely climate models, right? So there are a lot of climate models that we rely on looking at different scenarios. There is external data on -- in no particular order, definitely about weather, terrain, building codes because depending on how certain parts of our service area are built out, we can get some intelligence from that about in case a spark starts there, how much will it propagate. 

We rely a lot on risk models from many different external parties so that there is an independent review of that. And then, of course, our own asset data. Because right now, for the -- our high fire risk areas, we have very individualized risk models for every single asset. So every pole, every span of wire, every transformer has its own risk model associated with it, which means we need the data on the equipment itself, what its performance was in the past, and what kind of environment it is in.

Esther Whieldon: Anything I haven't asked you about that you think is important for our listeners to understand about the landscape that you're operating in right now?

Shinjini Menon: No. The only thing I'll add is that we have been on this journey for a while and there's a lot more to learn always, but we have built up a lot of knowledge base in that. And unfortunately, many parts of the country and the world are facing these new challenges and we are here to share what we can so -- if we can help them move faster.

Lindsey Hall: So today, we heard how one of the largest electric utilities in the U.S. is balancing the need for security, reliability, affordability, and resilience to climate change. And this topic is particularly urgent for a utility that operates in Southern California where the risk of wildfires is so high. And as we heard, that can sometimes lead to hard choices like proactively shutting off power when the risk gets too high. Shinjini explained how Southern California Edison uses technology, modeling, and data to mitigate wildfire risks and make the grid more resilient. She also said the utility has learned from peers in other parts of the world like Japan and Australia as it works to build climate resilience.

Esther Whieldon: We've been tracking these topics in our research at S&P Global as well. A recent report from our team sought to quantify the financial costs that the world's largest companies could face from a range of climate physical hazards in the absence of adaptation. We also explored how these hazards affect corporate assets using projections from the S&P Global Sustainable and Physical Risk data set. We'll include a link to that research in our show notes if you'd like to learn more. And we'll be back next week with more perspectives on the energy transition and building climate resilience. So please stay tuned.

Lindsey Hall: Thanks for tuning into this episode of All Things Sustainable. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe, share, and leave us review wherever you get your podcasts.

Esther Whieldon: And a special thanks to our agency partner, The 199. See you next time.

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